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Oh and something I didn't address from your last post about this topic not being about forgiveness. I actually can't see how the topic of apology and reconciliation can be discussed without the inclusion of forgiveness. Those who don't need to forgive, IMO, already have. Reconciliation is not possible without forgiveness, as I see it. When i raised the point about Aborigines, i did so because of the role an apology can play in forgiveness and subsequent reconciliation.

Ellen,

I have no idea what you are saying in your message. It seems contradictory

......

if you want someone (who?) .....whoever....to shift perspective but you aren't saying what perspective they are coming from now and you just say that their perspective is no applicable....then what are you saying?

It seems like a play on logic that is just plain illogical.

I'm not trying to "attack".......I really don't understand what the point is that you're trying to make. I mean....are you (we)? discussing reconciliation and apologies.....or are you trying to just argue for the sake of stirring up the board? I'm really confused. I'd like to understand what it is you're talking about.

If you can, I'd appreciate a straight forward explanation. If not, I'll have to settle with just not understanding (which is really hard for me!!!!!) but I'll try to forgive you nevertheless.....although I may not be able to reconcile a supportive relationship with you.......

First, that was a reply to Sarah.

Second, I was being straight forward.

I didn't say her perspective is no longer applicable. Not at all.

Oh, and I was a bit unclear with the word "it". I meant her argument doesn't apply to the perspective I'm sharing, because it comes from a different perspective.


And I'm not trying to argue at all. I expressed a thought for people to think about. Not an argument, but something for people to think about for themselves.

Wait, argue/arguement has two meanings. I'm not trying to fight. But I also wasn't trying to make a point. I wasn't arguing in the sense of trying to argue a point either.

I also wasn't discussing relationships and apologies.

It was a word picture that share's a perspective. So that others perhaps can try it out for themselves and see what they think of it.

Oh...I didn't know it was a reply to just Sarah.

I still don't understand but I'm getting the feeling that there is a history between you and Sarah that I'm not party to so I don't need to try to understand.

I'm sorry for butting in.

have a good night.

No, no history. Not for me. Just me replying to what she wrote in this thread.

P.S. Quoting Sarah was the indication that what followed (including what you quoted) was a reply to what she wrote.

OK...whatever. I'll stick with the posts on helping people be happy and healthy. I like that better.

Have a good night Ellen!

There's more than one way to help people. Sometimes helping others is helping them help themselves, not doing for them.

you assume you know what they need...........

i think people come to this site to get help and support as they try to help themselves get better.

since this is the internet and there is no RL here.....i don't see how it is possible to "do for" others on this site.

how can you assume that you know anyone on this site? you only know the front the share with you.....so how can you then assume that you know what they need to do in order to help themselves?

you only know yourself, ellen. and because you don't really share anything about who ellen is....i have no idea how to relate to you. i don't know what you want. all i have experienced with you on this site is disagreeableness.

i think that it is important for "ellen" to hear that from me so that "ellen" will begin to think about how "she" comes off to other people. if "she" doesn't have any issues relating to people in RL....then i wonder why "she" has come to this site.

if you want to share more about you and learn and grow as a person then i'd love to listen and learn and support you. but if you're just here to argue with people about semantics.......i think your energy is misguided.

that's my

You aren't even replying to what I actually said. It's like you've seen some other post and replied to that.

Ellen, this whole "conversation" makes no sense.

That is my point to you.....directly.

I do think that your place here is to stir things up. I do not think that is appropriate however.

I don't care where the post "should" go. I'm talking to you, "ellen".....and I am saying that I think that your posts make no sense.

It irritates me because I see you as a person who "attacks" other people....makes people doubt themselves, and feel badly about themselves. I believe that is counterproductive for people who are overcoming BPD.

I do not want to continue to "argue" this with you. If you don't agree with me, at least you can be courteous and say that you will step back and reflect on your message in order to make it more ealily understood for others.

I do expect that amount of consideration from anyone I engage with....here or in RL.

If you have a personal issue with me, this thread isn't the place to address it. If you want a conversation with me about, well, whatever issues you have with me, start a conversation somewhere appropriate. This is the last I will respond to you in this thread.

Is it possible for a moderator to either close this thread or move the off topic stuff to a separate thread?