BPDRecovery.com: Forums

Hello, I hope you can help me help my friend.

I recently broke up with my girlfriend who I am believe has BPD. My own therapist diagnosed her after I described her history and behavior. I would like to get her to a therapist and into treatment. I do not have BPD by the way.

Since we are not talking right now, and I don't know if we ever will again, I imagine me asking her to see a therapist will not be effective.

We had only been together for three months, though she had apparently been in love with me much longer than that. It was a torrid time for me, I have never experienced a relationship with so many high and lows. In any case I said something insensitive, which she took as something I did had no intention of meaning. She called me yesterday still very angry, I put the phone down when she started throwing insults at me again. Today she called and left messages saying she didn't want to be angry anymore. She still wants to break up though, and I think that is best.

So things between us seem to a bit better today than yesterday, but then I though something similar last week!

I feel like anything I say is likely to be interpreted as 'It's all your fault'. I could try going though friends and family but she will still know it's coming from me.

Really all I need to do right now is persuade her to go to a therapist (mine probably) to be properly assessed, any ideas on how to do this?

Unfortunately, you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. And people who have this disorder...they aren't going to like being told that there's something wrong with them. I know from personal experience, I've felt like an outcast my whole life, and since all I wanted was to fit in and be able to relate to other people, to be normal, I did not like it when my mother and my boyfriend suggested there might be something wrong with me. If you do try to talk to her about BPD specifcally, DON'T bring it up while fighting. Do it when she's calm. If I was you, I'd print out some of the things from the tools, such as the five steps, and show them to her when you see her next. Especially if she gets angry with you. If she gets upset, show her the five steps and help her through them to calm down. Or show her the ten twisted ways of thinking, and hopefully, she'll be open enough to recognize that she's thinking in those ways.

If she calms down and admits you are right, and she likes the materials, she might ask where you got them. Then you can show her this website and the symptoms of BPD. Then, you can convince her to use the site and probably go to a therapist. The thing is, if you really want to help her, you need to be VERY conscious of her feelings and you need to stick by her nad be supportive, it's going to be a hard process. YOU shouldnt become her therapist, but she will need a good friend to help her through.

And one more tip - if you suggest a therapist and she takes it as an insult, and says something like "only crazy people need therapists" calmly remind her that you see a therapist and that you find it very helpful.

I can think of two possible approaches, in addition to simply deciding to do nothing. It's her life, not yours. You don't have to give her help she's not seeking.

Basically, it's the friendly approach and the unfriendly approach.

Friendly approach, is, at at appropriate time (and out of the blue just after a breakup may not be an appropriate time), tell her that seeing a therapist has helped you, and you think it might help her. Don't put a label on her. Don't say anything that comes across like she's the messed up on. Go from a place of commonality.

The other option is to say "hey, I think you have BPD, and that getting help for that would benefit you". Which, while that would, I hope, come from a place of friendship, it would pretty much be a friendship killer. And probably won't get immediate results, but may work in the long term. Don't try this if you want to remain actively friends, and then only after careful consideration.

This is a big and common question: how do I "get someone into treatment?"

The best book I've read about this is by Xavier Amador, and is called I Am Not Sick, I Don't Need Help.

Also here is an excellent video of a presentation by Amador:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7314023921

Hello, thank for the replies. Sorry it has taken me so long to get back here I have been very busy.

We are still not talking and I really don't think trying talking would work. We have communicated by by email. I did talk to my therapist and he suggested I if I was going to do anything to send an email respecting my values. So I sent a very caring email. She replied with a fairly nice email, saying that 'the things that are broken in me aren't fixable'. An admission of sorts. She had in any case told me previously the she was 'damaged'.

EllenKMR:
I went with a friendly approach. At least I though it was friendly, she seems to think maybe I was being mean. It was probably an inappropriate time. She does seem to believe almost anyone could benefit from therapy but says 'Finding it in a 100$ an hour therapist is only one recourse or solution... maybe.' Not sure what that means. She also seems to think the problems we had were not all her fault. I think they were, but then I would, wouldn't I She is definitely trying to distance herself from me and our relationship. She has apparently found new supportive friends.

Well I feel like I am rambling a bit here. I am tending towards the unfriendly approach right now, it really does not make any difference now, we are not even talking. I do have to work with her sometimes though, I hope this does not cause me any problems. I wasn't going to use the 'BPD' term though. I was going to rely on the therapists authority. I will be seeing my therapist again soon and I will talk it over with him again.

Hello again.

Talked to my therapist again, it's alright with him if I let her know he made a diagnosis, even though it's not definitive because he has not talked to her. And as long as it is from a perspective of my values.

I also talked to the only common friend we have. My friend was of the opinion that telling my-ex I had a diagnosis could just pour fuel on the fire, especially as she might think I had betrayed confidences with my therapist.

So I am still trying to weigh the immediate consequences against the possible long term benefit, both of which seem to be unknowable. Which makes it hard to weigh!

Also one roadblock seems to be the money angle. My therapist also told me there are good, cheap local services for someone with a low income like my ex. I suppose I could mention those.

auspicious:
I watched that whole video, well listened mostly, and looked at some of Amador's books on Amazon. I wish I had been onto all this stuff much sooner. Too late now, I suppose.

Any more comments or advice would be appreciated.

You never know ... emotional volatility can swing both directions.

However, the only person you can change is you. How are you doing?

In her case maybe not. Judging by what she told me of her history, she tends to break off all contact. Got a few weird phone calls at one of my jobs, which was very unusual, the week after we broke up suggesting some sort of emotional high. Seems to have been mostly downhill since then though, we just say hello at work and that's it.


Obsessing about this issue too much, that's depressing me a bit.

Hello again, an update since my last post at the end of October.

We broke-up in the middle of September over a something I said that was blown up out of all proportion. We had some bad and good phone conversations and email exchanges for a while and then no real contact for 45 days until just before Thanksgiving.

In the meantime lots of stuff was going on with her I did not know about: she went to AA for a while, dropped out of it again, hooked up with a new guy, went on a drinking binge, broke up with the new guy, go into detox and left detox early. Wow!

This time was not very good for me, especially as she was not discreet about the new guy. A week before thanksgiving I sent her an nice email explaining how I felt about her and what had happened between us, I was hoping to get some closure. Well my email was very well timed as she had just left detox early. She was also suicidal and I stayed with her for a few days, she credits me with saving her life. We kind of got back together, and then she got into AA heavily again, and we were just friends again. Since then I have been called her 'best friend' and been told to 'leave me alone'. Right now things are a little frosty. As I have learned though, anything could happen next, especially as her ex-husband is in town for a while to see their son.

What I want to do now is:
1. For my own sake (I am not emotionally equipped for this) make it clear I can only be a friend who will listen when she needs it
2. Let her know that she has BPD and needs treatment by a professional

With #2 I am basically back to where I started, but there has been some progress. She has admitted to being an alcoholic, calls herself damaged as far as relationships go and recently talked about being crazy. She did go down to the local mental health clinic and they got her into detox but when I mention going back she makes excuses. She is clearly more comfortable being labeled 'alcoholic' than having a mental problem. Perhaps I am being too calculating and manipulative, but it seems like it would be better to wait until she needs something from me again before I do anything.

More suggestions or ideas please.

P.

Well, two separate issues with this:

1. When someone is suicidal it is a mental health emergency. They need evaluation and treatment. We are not qualified to decide "if they really mean it" or to handle the situation. If someone harms or threatens to harm themselves or others, we need to call emergency services.

By the way, this would have been the best opportunity to get her the mental health evaluation that she needs.

2. Her "crediting you with saving her life" is not the basis for a healthy relationship ... as you have since seen.

She needed evaluation and treatment, not a "rescuer" with romantic interests.

I probably did not state this well.

Even with hindsight it is not clear what happened. At some point she had held a knife to her wrists but I did not know of this, even now I do not know when this was.

Soon after we did get in contact she called me and made some very vague statements on about three occasions. I was worried enough to call my own therapist but not enough to call emergency services. After that she asked me to go over and I stayed with her to make sure she was OK, she did not make any more statements.

Do you still think calling the calling emergency services was best? If so, I am fine with that, next time I will know (let's hope this does not happen).


I agree completely. Yesterday she sent me an email flipping over completely from 'I love you/I miss you' to 'leave me alone'. I am resolved to not getting involved romantically with her again.

Now what? She is suffering and needs treatment but is not receiving any. I want to take action. Here are a few alternatives:

a. Do nothing
-- I do not really see this as an option for me.

b. Contact her against her current wishes and let her know she has BPD
-- The consequences are unknowable, I do not want to prompt suicidal behavior.

c. Contact her against her current wishes and let her know my therapist made a diagnosis
-- Gentler than b.

d. Contact the mental health clinic so they might initiate contact
-- Unknown consequences here too.


Any better ideas or comments?

I'd like to chime in here and gently suggest that nobody will succeed in treatment until they are ready to seek it on their own. I think that if she is suicidal, in immediate danger of harming herself, that you have an obligation to call the police and paramedics and have her taken to the hospital. Beyond that, as sad as I'm sure it is to watch, it's her life and her choice. jim

Yes, but if you do not know what you have can you make a choice?

I can see that you are determined to insert yourself into her situation. I wish you the best of luck with it. jim

Yes.

You don't need a label to want to get better. You don't need a label to seek out self-help tools for dealing with one's issues. You don't need a label to call up a psychiatrist. Labels (or "knowing what you have") are useful tools. But the key is wanting to get better.

FWIW I agree with Jim and everyone else on this one. That said it is fairly clear that you are looking for some confirmation for a course of action that it appears as though you are already set upon (i.e. trying to get her into treatment).

This is not going to happen - your ex will only seek treatment if she wants it. All that you can actually do is state your suspicion that she has BPD and recommend that she seeks help.

There are no right and wrong answers to this but you seem to have a very deep attachment to your ex - thus making it difficult for you to decide on a course of action for fear of the consequences. If she was simply a good friend then it is possible that this decision may be easier for you - it is often easier to do things in what you think is anothers best interests when you are less attached to them.

If you set your own needs aside, what decision would you take?

Regards

Paul.

I still strongly recommend Amador's book I Am Not Sick, I Don't Need Help.

This is obviously something you are very concerned about, and I think you might find the book very helpful.

Thank you all for your comments, even if they are not what I want to hear, I appreciate you expressing your concerns and ideas.

I will be back soon.

P.

I am realizing the title of this thread would have been better as 'How do I (or do I) tell my ex she has BPD'.

I am not even sure if she is my 'ex'. Would this thread be better in 'Season Passes'? I feel like it is very much out in the public view, and that makes me uncomfortable, even though I have tried not to post any identifying information.

What is your goal in telling her your belief?

Well, if you hadn't added that second paragraph, I'd say, if you are going to tell her, just say (or write) it, and don't worry about the consequences.

Ah, but if you think you might get back together with her, that changes the picture. Basic answer is, you don't. Not unless she shows receptivity to such a discussion - not unless she shows interest in doing what she can to change. Even then, you may be better off with the suggestion of seeing a therapist rather than saying you think she has BPD.

Also, your therapist did NOT diagnose her. Giving an opinion that she has BPD based on what you have said is not a diagnosis. A diagnosis would have to involve her. The psychiatrist would have to see her and interact with ther. (I say psychiatrist because they are the ones who do diagnosing.)

Ex: How do you know if someone changes between 'I miss you' and 'I love you' one week, and wants you to leave her alone the next, and nothing has happened in between?

Diagnosis: OK, to be more accurate he offered me an opinion. What is interesting to me is that I did not ask for one. I knew nothing of BPD. This was after two months together, it had been pretty intense, and I was very troubled by her behavior. He asked me a few questions and then gave me his opinion that she has BPD.

You said you broke up with her. You would know whether you've changed on that. You don't need to know how she feels to decide if you want to be in a relationship, or if you want to stand by being broken up. Though, personally, I would say, if she's doing that, keep her as an ex. You do have the power to make that decision. Her cooperation is not needed for that.

Bro,

FWIW I've been in your shoes (I think), my partner was diagnosed recently by a psychiatrist with BPD largely because I recognised that there was something not right in the way she was behaving - the bi-polar mother, suicidal ideation, abuse history and emotional flip flopping were pretty much dead give aways.

My particular perspective on this was very simple- I was not prepared to be with someone who wasn't prepared to address issues in their life that were making them unhappy (and causing me some distress). On that basis, and when the next suicidal / major depressive episode happened, I insisted that she seek medical support, this led directly to the diagnosis and the rest is history.

In my particular case I was entirely prepared to lose the relationship if my partner did not seek help - I was not prepared to continue offering emotional support and being an emotional dumping ground.

What's your bottom line? What do you want in your life? Answer those questions and run with the decision that springs naturally from that - but, when your decision concerns the behaviour of other people, you MUST be prepared for things not going the way part of you may want them to. I could just as easily be writing this and telling you I took the decision and the relationship fell apart. That's the risk you have to be prepared to take when you've established your bottom line.

Good luck.

Paul.

Believe me, I get your dilemma ... how do you make an informed decision about a relationship, when something huge that you would normally take into account - the other person's feelings for you - is so ambiguous, changeable, and unknowable?