BPDRecovery.com: Forums

I think this fits here. (As much as a find the idea of Radical Acceptance helpful, based on my own idea of what that means, I'm not actually real familiar with the formal concept.)


So, there's a guitar player I like (mostly ), the one I used to often mention, in posts dealing with my feelings for him. There's also all the interactive stuff between us that I've never much talked about.

So, there's a history between us, some of it good, but a lot of messed up stuff, not understanding each other, some hurtful stuff at times.

At one point, I wished that the two of us could start over. Erase the past and start again. But that's not possible.

Recently, I again started feeling that way. But, I realized something, found something better. I can't erase the past. But I can let the past be the past. Not dwell on what happened. Start afresh in a sense, but not as if the past hadn't happened, not forgetting the past, but rather, letting go of the past.

Letting go of all the expectations, the hurts, etc.

I feel like I'm not quite fully expressing the idea here. Like I got it partly down, but the rest I can't quite put into words.

I suppose it relates to the idea I've expressed of a base level of trust when you meet someone, and then they earn or lose trust from there. Being okay that my level of trust with this person doesn't match the intimacy that's been shared. Being okay with that, and willing to start back at that base level like I would with a new relationship (in the general sense of the word relationship), while still holding on to the realization and knowledge that this is someone I love dearly. Letting go of the hurts and mistrust of the past and returning to that base level, and then going from there.

And this ties into Radical Acceptance, because it's accepting that the past is real, has happened, and can't be changed. Letting go of it, letting it be the past, but accepting it's reality.

Hey Ellen!

I think thats great that you find yourself able to "let the past be the past".

I know its hard. I think sometimes its just hard to do because people usually either want to just "forgive and forget" or dwell on the past completely. Its finding that middle ground that is so tough.

I guess maybe what you are saying is that you are going to forgive and move on by starting over, but you are not going to forget....is that what you mean?

Its important not to forget things that have happened in the past because usually you learn something from your mistakes.

good luck!

There used to be a web page here that talked about "living in the now" -- I'll have to see if I can dig that stuff up again. With Borderline, it's difficult and a double-edged sword. We live in the present (forgetting the wrongs we've committed) while also living in the past (clinging desperately to the wrongs others have committed against us.)

Cesar Millan, the Dog Whisperer, believes in the here and now. According to him, dogs only know the present. In dealing with dogs, it's important to not allow past incidents lead to fear or trepidation because the dog doesn't remember the past and if we head into an interaction with that weak, fearful energy, things will get ugly fast.

I don't think people are dogs!

There's a Buddhist monk who wrote a lengthy book filled with "Be Here Now" -- a couple hundred pages of just those words -- to remind people that we need to live and operate in the present. That the only thing we can control is the moment we're in. The past cannot be changed and the future is yet to exist.

Each day is a new day. Anything is possible at any given moment.

And yet, I'm still plagued with "the past has proven that this person / these words / this situation cannot be trusted."

I guess, Ellen, where does the past stop ruling the present? In another thread, you said something about not making agreements with people because the only thing you could control is your actions, not theirs. (I agree, btw.) So if you make the decision "I don't find it beneficial to myself to read this person's posts because I find them ____" how is the continued "steering clear of that person" reconciled with "the past is the past"?

I mean, if we're only in the present and we let go of past hurts & future expectations, aren't we also 'supposed to' let go of the expectation that they are likely to post things I find ___?

I too feel like I'm not fully expressing the aching concern I have about this. Sorry if things are extra-unclear.

Interesting thoughts, Ash. I hadn't really thought about putting the two ideas together, and how they fit. Mostly I guess because in this thread, I am talking about one particular relationship, and moving forward, letting go of the past, in this relationship.

It's an issue of boundaries.

Part of the answer, is that in this particular relationship, I've reached a point where I can have boundaries similar to those I'd have with someone I've just met. I don't need more rigid boundaries than that.

It's worth nothing that those sort of boundaries are not what I had when he and I first met, when we first began to know each other. Back then, with him, I had walls that made up for a lack of boundaries. (Well, that's the simplified version.)

With him, putting the past in the past means, in a sense, starting over with healthy boundaries. Not boundaries based on the hurt of the past, but healthy boundaries that come from who I am.

As far as more generally, I don't think letting the past be the past always means this sense of starting afresh. But it means basing the particular boundaries of the present on one's reasonable understanding of the present. It's the distinction between "I don't approach this person because he said hurtful things to me in the past" versus "I don't approach this person because I have reason to believe he'll say hurtful things to me". That reason is due to past experience, yes, but it's still about the present.

I can think of another person I know, where I've let go of the hurt of the past, and I sometimes have to remind myself to keep my distance. I have to remind myself that what he sees as friendly I may find hurtful, and that thus I have to keep a certain distance. Because the hurt of the past is no longer in charge, but boundaries still apply.

I suppose one can say, the past informs the present, but doesn't rule it.

This is my view of how the two ideas -- letting the past be the past, and boundaries based on past behavior -- fit together.

I like that a lot. Thank you.

""""Cesar Millan, the Dog Whisperer, believes in the here and now. According to him, dogs only know the present. In dealing with dogs, it's important to not allow past incidents lead to fear or trepidation because the dog doesn't remember the past and if we head into an interaction with that weak, fearful energy, things will get ugly fast"""

totally off the subject, my bad, ellen, but this man hasnt met my dogs or any others i know if he thinks that. i would go into my reasoning but i think it would hijack your thread. suffice to say...dogs only know the present? lol. not. my goldfish remember longer than that.
on to the subject...........

i look to the past to learn from. why i behave or think how i do about something, where it came from, and how to change it if needed.

i like this you said..."""And this ties into Radical Acceptance, because it's accepting that the past is real, has happened, and can't be changed. Letting go of it, letting it be the past, but accepting it's reality."""

let go of the feelings from something that happened in the past, yet learn from them. just dont hang on and wear them out, kinda. everyone changes, every day, to a newer person. like, hey last monday i had a bad mental health day and flipped off so and so. i learned from it and hopefully wont do it again. if they hang onto it, then its their issue.

i dont know about the complete starting over thing, tho. im not sure that can be done, or should be.

do you think as we know someone better---more intimately---certain things will happen- hurts, miscommunications, etc. its inevitable. what we learn is they are also human, and we decide if we accept that? im not sure it depends on level of trust....but on accepting they will screw up as we will some days?

Jody, now I'm having to reread my posts to see what I said that you are replying to, before I replay.

As I reread, one thing that caught me eye is... letting go of expectations. I said "Letting go of all the expectations, the hurts, etc.", but it's the expectations part that's catching my eye now. Letting go of expectations, both good and bad.

In this case, it's letting go of expectations (good and bad) largely because my perceptions of this man in the past were so colored by my own stuff that, well, my expectations weren't fair, they were based on my own biases. Biases I've worked on letting go of.

Which I suppose is a different way of answering Ash's question. Like, why here, in this case, let go of expectations and start over, when, in another case, it would be darn silly to let go of expectations, though I might still let go of the hurt. And that's my explanation.

But, not a complete forgetting. As I said before, the past informs the present, but doesn't rule it. As I learn new expectations with him and of the friendship with him, those expectations are informed by the past. But by a fuller view of the past than I what I had before.

I wrote about someone else, in my 2nd post in this thread:

With this person, I've had no reason to change those expectations. I've no reason to think he has changed. I have no reason to think I'll see his behaviors (if he does the same sort he did in the past) any differently than I did before.

Okay, Jody, now to reread your post and reply.


I'm not sure if you see yourself as agreeing with me or disagreeing with me. Since I didn't use that wording, I'm not sure what you are referring back to when you say "the complete starting over thing". But, to me, the idea is certainly not a complete starting over. It's letting go of what needs to be let go of. (I'm thinking you are probably agreeing with me, and referring back to me saying erasing the past and starting over isn't possible; I'm just not certain. If I've misunderstood, let me know.)


Depends what you mean by inevitable. I wouldn't say it's something that always happens. That's way too absolute. It's not a given that every relationship will have that.

But, normal and typical that misunderstandings will happen, yes. Unavoidable, yes. The only way to truly avoid misunderstandings is to not engage with others. We can certainly do our best to communicate clearly, and to not jump to conclusions about what someone else meant, to be open to different possible meanings (the four agreements comes to mind here), but, completely avoiding misunderstanding... that would be an unrealistic expectation.

It's a grey, rather than black or white. To aim for no misunderstanding is unrealistic. To aim for very little misunderstanding, that's something we can strive for. (Though, depends on the other person and what we can realistically expect of them as well.)

The more we engage with someone, the more chances for misunderstanding, but also the more chances for understanding. I'm not inclined to say intimacy has any effect either direction on how much we have hurts and misunderstandings. I think that can go both ways. It varies. But, as we get to know someone more, we are engaging with them, interacting. And, as I said, that interacting increases opportunities for both misiunderstanding and for understanding.

Yes, we learn the other is also human. And we learn the particulars of what that means for this person, their strengths and weaknesses. And can we accept that this person is who they are?

That's something I've actually been working on regarding this person (the main one I've been talking about my relationship with here, that is, not the other one I briefly mentioned). Better seeing and understanding who he is. I did consider the idea of asking him, regarding some of the things I didn't understand. My sense was he wouldn't have been able to give me helpful answers. And I wasn't sure he'd be comfortable with such a converstaion. But, by rethinking what I already knew, I was able to understand him differently, better.

Which goes back to the main topic of this thread, the idea of letting go, starting over in a sense, but not completely. As I said, letting go of expectations. And, from there, being open to seeing things differently. Not clinging to my perspective I had in the past, but being open to a new perspective.

An example that was an important realization for me. I've opened up a lot of stuff to him (via email). When I have, almost always he doesn't reply. And the rare exceptions were quite terse. No opening up in reply, nor any acknowledgement of what I'd shared. And yet, almost always after one of those emails where I opened up, next time I'd see him I'd get a friendly greeting from him. This to me, was major mixed messages. Like, does he accept my opening up or not?

What I've come to see. He accepts that I've chosen at times to open up. He accepts what he sees in me due to my opening up. That is, he accepts me as I am including that stuff I've been open about in those emails. He does not choose to open up reciprocally. He does not choose to verbally acknowledge. At least, he hasn't so far. I'm not sure how much that's just who he is, and how much that's how he is with me. But I accept that. I accept him as he is. That's his combination of traits. And I can accept that the acceptance I've seen from him is real, and that he doesn't verbally open to me about his own stuff, nor directly acknowledging mine, is something separate.

And, once I understand that, I can respond to him, make my choices, set my boundaries, based on a true understanding of who he is, of what's behind his interactions with me. (Like, I won't open up to him and expect him to open up in return, because history says that won't happen. If I see something from him that makes me think's he'll open up, I might change that. So far, though, that's how it stands.)

As for the trust thing, I really don't at the moment have a sense of how trust fits in to this generically, and I'm not wanting to think it through right now. I can say that for me, with this relationship, trust was an issue.


It's that starting over. With him, it was starting from a spot of trust and intimacy mismatching. And being okay with that. Since I wrote the above, I've come to a better understanding. And more trust. I trust that he accepts me as I am, and accepts that I've at times chosen to open up to him. That's one example of trust.

Trust is always part of the picture. Sometimes we don't notice it. Think about driving (or being a passenger). We put a lot of trust in the other drivers out on the road. People we've never met. People we know nothing about other than what car they are driving. Yet we trust them. We trust they are competant drivers. We trust they are wanting to deliberately get into accidents. And we don't even think about that we are trusting them. We don't notice it. We don't notice trust, I think, when it's the normal expected level. We notice it when someone gains or loses trust beyond that expected level.

When you say, Jody, "im not sure it depends on level of trust" I honestly don't know what you mean by "it". So I don't know if I agree or not. I do think trust (or lack of trust) is always a factor in relationships. Sometimes salient, sometimes just invisibly there. Do you mean accepting that the other person is human doesn't depend on trust? If so, I agree with that. We don't have to trust someone to accept that they are who they are. And by accepting someone as they are, I am better able to set and hold appropriate boundaries with the person. And that includes not painting the person black (all bad) or all white (idealizing them). It also includes not trying to put them in a role that's not theirs. They are who they are. Trust or not comes out of how I see them. Like, base my level of trust on a realistic view of who they are, rather than basing my view of them on my level of trust.

I guess I said more on trust than I thought I would.

thanks for sharing, ellen. i love to hear your thoughts. they always strike a chord in me.

you actually helped clarify for me what i meant..lol. and what you were meaning.

relationships are so complicated. 2 histories, 2 people. never easy.

"""it's letting go of expectations (good and bad) largely because my perceptions of this man in the past were so colored by my own stuff that, well, my expectations weren't fair, they were based on my own biases""". that is so deep and so true.

i wasnt really agreeing or disagreeing, just exploring the ideas you had posted...

you talk about his email. i email my son daily, and i get back a one line usually..lol. some men --some people--may just not email like we can. hard to read, yes. but again our view of what they mean, versus maybe what they really do mean.

i was trying to explain my take on trust to my daughter the other day. trust, indeed, comes from our own selves. we must always keep part of that back for us. one never gives completely away all of ourselves to another. and our reactions are colored by who we are. thus,...trust could mean diff things and how we choose to do it. how much we choose to give away, in her case, and how much we know is theirs and not our stuff. when we know what is ours, trust is easier to dole out.

i found out one reason my daughter falls apart when a man leaves her is she gives her all to him. she thought you were supposed to. thus, when he is gone, she doesnt exist anymore to herself. if she leaves, she is ok. if he does, and this 3rd H of hers is the first to ever do it to her, she comes unglued. like he took her with him. she needs the separation of stuff.

very good stuff, ellen. good things to learn.

I suppose you and whoever else managed to read through that long post above figured out I meant that we trust other drives are NOT wanting to deliberately get into accidents.

Jody, I don't have more to add right now, but it was nice to come back to this and think about it some more and say a little (or maybe more than a little) more.

I went back and read something I wrote back in September 2005. It was what I would have said (written) to him if I said everything on my mind. Which I didn't send him. Though later I shared a small bit of the thoughts. Anyway, it was interesting reading that, seeing where I was then, and how far I've come. And it was also a reminder of why he's so special to me, why he matters to me, the difference he's made in my life.