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thought i would post this to get it out. i catch myself wanting to post these passive aggressive little statements on the board. so i thought "why?". because im angry, thats why. im cautious, im scared, and that creates anger in me. im trying to choose what i do with this anger.

am i gonna get in trouble again? no doubt. oh well.

im angry no one else is told about their ways of posting. when it is pretty much what i was doing and still have trouble knowing if i am doing it or not.

im angry im the one told off in public much of the time. i dont know why, and i want to know why its never (i know, dont use total type adverbs such as never) another but always jody.

instead of doing some passive aggressive shit on here, i am just gonna post im ANGRY at this. im tired of it. and obviously, im still not able to let it go.

i had my first group yesterday with DV. all 2 of us. (3 including T) my T is not good at group , and let it get off track. with my need for fairness and following rules, a bad look. then the other lady said she slaps her H. my T joked about it. then said later "some dont get my sense of humor and i dont care". lovely example of a T. dont tell me straight out and discuss it. mumble it so i can hear it. i dont find joking about hitting funny. most dont who have been hit a lot.

argh. lovely shit.

so im plain angry.

I just wanted to say nice job on owning and expressing your feelings. I know you're concerned about getting into trouble, but I think it's better to be open and honest about these things. I hope you can get some resolution.

Is this a new T for you?

yes, its my new T. and to be fair, she has taken the place of a lady who was older, had tons of experience and brilliance. very professional so im spoiled to that and her always keeping me on task. asking me questions and making me dig. this one is younger than me, still working on her masters, and just a diff person than the one i came to trust over 4 years of weekly sessions. now its all new, and i just dont know if i can do it.

still and all, i dread having to bring this up to her. it was terribly unprofessional of her to say it like that. and i dont confront well. so......... she may not like hearing my views at all. she should but she may not....

come to think of it , im bad like that. i expect to learn what the topic is. i expect it to happen. it didnt, and i was let down. thats one reason i fit well with my old T. she was all business and intended it to get done. so am i. i dont do well with people who just fuck around a lot.

yeah, thanks echoes. i decided to simply voice how i felt. not bad,eh? feels weird and scary. i appreciate the compliment.

i dont see the resolution as no one wants to talk about it or has the time to fool with me here. so i just wanted to get it out rather than post some p/a statements. and so no one thinks jody is over it! maybe everyone is called on shit in private and i just dont know it. reckon>?

ty so much, echoes. was nice of you to post:)

Jody, we expect more from you just like we expect more from members that have been here for an extended period of time. You're not a newbie. You know the proper ways to act to various situations. This feeling of persecution tells me you are still held very closely by your BPD.

The point of this board is calling people on their shit. We do it to everyone who needs it. We may not discuss things with others that we discuss with you, but that doesn't make it unfair. They are different situations.

I know you feel picked on. It is our job to help folks to live a happy, healthy life. If you're getting called to the carpet a lot, maybe there's something about you you haven't found yet. Some skill that hasn't set it. Some realization that hasn't happened. I hear you say, "I get it now," a lot, but it's mostly a blow off because you don't get it and you keep doing the same things that brought about the attention. When we keep doing the same things expecting different results, well, they say that's the definition of crazy. And I know you're not crazy. So how about be yourself. Learn who that is. And if it's a personality that doesn't match what this board's focus is, you might want to think about seeking more support outside this particular board.

Maybe.

I know that I prefer to speak with some people in private, and I'd rather speak with others in a more public forum. A lot of that depends on my relationship with the individual and whether or not I trust them to hear what I'm saying (not what they hear). Of course, that changes over time and it changes with my mood. Some days I'm more confident in my own communication skill. Other times, I'm more comfortable speaking in public to keep myself accountable. I don't always choose my words carefully enough, I know...
And when I AM carrying on a conversation with someone else in private, I prefer not to discuss that with anyone else. This can create the illusion that I'm only speaking with one person, when I'm actually carrying on several conversations, each isolated from the other.

I sure would be angry if I had to get a new T - especially under your circumstances! Not only are you dealing with the grief and loss, you also have to adjust to a whole new person. Your new T has her own personality and her own way of doing things, and that sort of change can be hard to cope with.

But I'm glad to see you owning your feelings, instead of taking the passive-aggressive way out. PA always "seems" easier to me, but I usually end up even more frustrated when the other people don't "get it". Then I just come off looking like a bitch or something...My mom was the queen of PA. You could never isolate what precisely she SAID that was SO WRONG, but it was ALWAYS there, right under the surface. But since she never came out and TOLD us what was bothering her, there wasn't anything anyone could do about it. I really do believe it's better to own it and talk about it than to waste my time paying games...If you're angry, be angry!

The feelings are never bad. It always comes down to what we do with them...

i am trying realllllly hard to not be p/a on here or in real or with anyone. its not easy, is it?

sorry trinity, i wont leave this board. i know how much nicer and quieter some think it would be without me, and i wont do it. i need this board to learn, for support, and just because my personality isnt a "match" on here with some , is no reason to want me out or me to leave.

exactly where would most people live if they didnt match others? some island? we--I---need to learn to get along in this world with all kinds, and guess what? so do all kinds need to learn to get along with others also.

i realize me even thinking the way i am and being angry is bpd. doh, i know that. im trying to work thru it. and your words arent helpful today telling me to go find support elsewhere.

anyways, on to the work at hand, and geez, i might teach some others a bit of tolerance also....eh?

"""""I hear you say, "I get it now," a lot, but it's mostly a blow off because you don't get it and you keep doing the same things that brought about the attention"""" did it ever occur to you, Trinity, i might "get it" yet have trouble doing it every time? that im LEARNING HOW? and its hard to get it inside me and to work every time. do you have a clue how hard i am working at wording a post? no, you say i blow it off...and am lying.

i take offense at your thinking i blow off things. that implies i do things on purpose and that is one of the problems some here keep telling me. that is YOUR perspective, your assumption and i dont do much on purpose to be wrong in life. i do not sit around and go.....hmmmmm Trinity told me this but lets pretend i lied to her and do it anyways! yes! what fun!

oh please, trinity. i barely have a brain to function with on a good day. ,much less plot to mess on here on purpose.

i find that view of me quite offensive. not to mention untrue. not to mention a negative view of who i am inside.

is that why some of you get onto me and get mad at me? because you have this sneaking suspicion jody is fucking with ya on purpose? that would answer a lot. i wish i was doing it on purpose and not had a counselor and dr tell me my dx. i wish i was picking to be mental and could unpick it! i cant. hullo. to insinuate i am is beyond a insult to me and mental illness in general.

no, im not a newbie. im not in the throes of, my God, i have mental issues and what do i do? im in the throes of i have worked my ass off for years, i have dealt with a ton in real, i have a new T, and im seeing the alternatives but havent yet gotten my bpd, cptsd completely gone. its discouraging, did you know that? its more discouraging to see i fall a lot. i may never, who knows. have you? your no newbie. is yours gone? completely? is everyone else who has been here --what is your time limit---?---3 yrs? 4? 1? lets see, who has no more bpd issues here now?

hmm, i can not think of ANYONE. wow. but here is your standard for me """"You're not a newbie. You know the proper ways to act to various situations. This feeling of persecution tells me you are still held very closely by your BPD. """"" ok, now about the others who arent newbies either? oh wait, i forget. you do call everyone on their stuff. passive aggressive remark...sorry there. i could edit it out but i am leaving it in so i can be honest with this.

i am still angry at this and your words, Trinity. classic example of me taking your post personally and you being wrong in some assumptions about me. which colors our interaction.

how do you KNOW all this? because im not new, i KNOW the proper ways to act? thus, like so many other nons, i am told i know how to act and simply am choosing to act bpd? how wrong is that? this whole place is based on bpd, mental issues are a illness , not a choice. wait, im chosing now? ah, ok. passive aggressive again there. yes, i choose how i behave. i choose badly sometimes, ok oftentimes, but on purpose just to make trouble? i dont think so.

im too angry to make sense. i knew posting this and being truthful and owning how i feel was a mistake. but oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained, eh?

it answers a lot, that few lines Trinity said. i believe some think i am doing all this on purpose, and lying to boot. where did you get that idea from?

believe what you want, now i see where some comments come from inside another, and i can sort accordingly. this isnt the first time i have been accused of lying on here, nor plotting on here by someone. i just wish those knew me, and knew how far from the truth that really is. now i see why some get onto me so much. yall think im making this up. being stupid on purpose. being bpd on purpose. having cptsd on purpose.

i wish you knew how much that hurts to hear. unfortunately, its the same thing my mom told me at a small age. "im doing this on purpose, i choose to be stupid and dense" all i want to do is cry out...but im not! dont you see im trying to learn and i dont know how all the time? dont you see i ask and ask and try? but thats inner child talking, and as a adult i should know it doesnt matter what others think of me. i want to be accepted. helped and help others. not told im lying, not told i dont fit in, not told im making it all up just to be difficult and annoying.

ok, im done being open for now. im too emotional to make anything useful out of this. i should not answer this but i began this thread and i need to stick it out and respond honestly. ( the rules, i think, right? be impeccable and dont hit and run?) my instinct is to run from it. but i need to hear the views and i have learned a lot already from them.

we are now getting to the core of the questions i had. finally.

I do not want to take bait, nor do I want this post answered.

But I see this as an attempt for more attention. Maybe if the mods would stop answering the posts everytime, she wouldn't keep demanding more specialized attention.

don't think I need to say anything...........actions speak louder than words and here's an online hug!

(((Jody)))


Roo...........

ty ((Roo))!!!

what i really want to do is not argue this, but sit with my feelings, see why they are, and a way to deal or view things differently. thats what im working on. to acknowledge, hey i feel this and that. why do i? where is it from? what does it matter?

and work it thru.

something i havent done much of and am very scared of.

not to argue anothers actions.

is my T the reason for the anger? i bet so. and it is spilling off on everything. damn it. but im gonna see it, feel it, and not stuff it this time. no p/a.

and aqua, were your helpful in your view? no. was it respectful? no. was it from a place of caring? no. so what was the point? you didnt like my thread so you added your 2 cents of your assumptions and judgements on a person you admittedly have conflict with and posted to more than once about your judgements of me.

why not let me work out my own shit without your 2 cents in it?

i dont care if you want it answered or not, i answered it. dont say it unless you can take the fallout. mind your own issues. thank you.

i do not want any special attention. i want to work on this issue i have, since i know where its from.

Because by now you should know better than this.... that's why. When I was angry about things on the site, I didn't think I had to come and demand attention for it. I learned to work it out by being a lot more subtle and congenial, and thoughtful. Think it out. Why do you think people are calling you out? Think about their words. Study them, instead of arguing with them. You usually argue that you are right, maybe think for a moment they might be? And think a whole lot more about it? And apply the tools a lot more? Maybe not take things so personally, to where you would allow yourself to become angry over words on a website?

Who cares who is getting called on their stuff? I care about my own stuff, and what goes on with me. That's my business. Theirs is theirs. I work out my own stuff, and let them work out theirs. If it involves me, then I get involved, sometimes. If it doesn't involve me, it's not my business. And if you see someone you need to call on something, why don't you, if you think it's the right thing?

~whatever aqua~

since im not who you want me to be, and you persist in trying to make me into that person you want, feel free to keep it up.

i dont care any more.

"""" care about my own stuff, and what goes on with me. That's my business. Theirs is theirs. I work out my own stuff, and let them work out theirs. If it involves me, then I get involved, sometimes. If it doesn't involve me, it's not my business. """"

oh really? then why are you in my stuff so much? this didnt involve you at all.

naw, i dont want to know. it aint worth the effort.

Because you asked.... you started a thread asking people to be in your business. You are comparing your own situation with others here to make yourself out to be the victim. "Mikey got the biggest piece of birthday cake!" "Mikey didn't get a spanking for doing what I did!" Mind your own issues, and stop comparing them to other people's.

~~whatever aqua~~

""""Mind your own issues, and stop comparing them to other people's.""""

is this where i salute and say yes sir?

shakes head*

this IS my issue, aqualite. and i am/was trying to work it out until you came along to give orders and do it for me.

Well, honestly, you don't seem to respond to any other way. I've seen them all tried, you have said yourself that you have always had dom/sub, which I believe are probably all cluster B, type relationships. And if people are not that way to you, you don't listen or respect that. My findings...

so this is only about response? just so i reply to you?

ah, shouldnt told me that one.

no more responses, chief. sorry. talk to yourself now.....im done with this thread. it has become another jody is fucked up rant from you,complete with your orders again.

congrats! you win...ummm nothing i guess,.,,,,cept my quiet. maybe thats all you wanted. but...you have none of my respect. none. and wont.

"""""And if people are not that way to you, you don't listen or respect that.""""

oops, im also not listening anymore either! never tell your tricks ...then they dont work anymore.

have a nice evening!

i wont be back to my own thread. guess i will work on this in private with someone.

I'm not your husband, jody.

My personal opinion is that unless you try to make some relationships with some normal, healthy people, that you aren't going to get better. Role models are needed. It's been how many years in recovery and the same actions day after day? I have my bf for a role model. Others have healthy role models, but your life is surrounded by cluster B's. I don't understand why you don't study what people are saying to you and try to understand it. Why don't you put more of your efforts into reading and studying and applying the tools and less into getting angry, upset, and posting?

I have found that if a person acts one way, you have an action for that. If they act another, you have an action for that. (Such as, you just responding to me like you do your husband because you saw what I said as a command). To you, command seems to be= say these words and go away. You don't appear to be thinking about what you are saying. It's rote. It's a set of maladaptive actions. Try something different for a change. Instead of thinking of reasons to be angry, study the tools. Instead of treating me like your husband, think about what I am saying and listen and think: am I right? Or are you just going to get angry because you think I commanded you? Think about the words more, and less about how people are saying them. You seem to respond so strongly to the way people are speaking to you. You take it personally the way people choose to write their sentences (if I write nicely, you just ignore it; if I write commanding, you get angry; otherwise, you just pick out the things you disagree with to respond to and argue over). And if I didn't write like this, you probably would've ignored 9/10 of what I was saying, and picked out only the phrases that bothered you or that you disagreed with to respond to. Why not try responding to the positives more? Why not try thinking about the things that will help you more? Is it because you are too afraid to take the jacket off because of your living situation?

I have tried to meet you in the middle, but you played mind games with me. I wouldn't write to you like this if I thought you would listen any other way, which means probably that you have been around your husband so long that you are in a certain pattern from it, which I have witnessed. It seems like you try to push people into the patterns you find to be comfortable.

Also, you have brought up this same issue I can't count how many times, of comparing your situation to what is happening to other people on the board. Each person is different and unique, their situations are different, and the way they present themselves is different. It's not something one can compare, each person has to find the right fit for them.

It's about using the tools. It's about untwisting your thinking. It's about the Four Agreements. It's not about how my situation compares to the next guy's, or how many times I am getting called out on the board. Each person is calling out for a different reason, it's not a collective effort, so why do you see it as such? As I've said over and over, why don't you get to at least an average level in communicating with others? That's all it takes to keep from getting called out so often. Tools, tools, tools, and thinking about the situations, not jumping the gun to automatically think you are right, but giving it some thought.

And who cares whether my motive was a response or not? That shouldn't change your actions. Which it was not... you misinterpreted it. I meant that I find it more productive to write to you in a commanding sort of fashion. Anything else I do is ignored, or you pick out what bothers you or you disagree and argue.

You also could look into reading comprehension.

Jody, I'm going to try to come at this in a different way than I sometimes do. I will not make any judgments about Jody, nor express any opinions about Jody. I will try my best, as I usually do, to be respectful. My intent here is to point out a few statements and then raise an objective question about them with the sole intent of being somehow helpful to Jody.

I will tell declare up front that my thinking about the exchanges in this thread is much like that expressed by Trinity, Minx, and AquaLite above. Reading that, you can have one of two responses... you can become defensive and prepare to reject any thought I write and try to make me out as a villain.. or you may look at it as a possible source of learning that could have some value for you at some time in the future.

OK. Here's one of your statements from the beginning of this thread.

It seems to me that I read your complaints about this issue regularly, no matter what other issues are involved. So I went to check to see the first time this might have occurred.

And found this statement, which StoneGlow pulled out of the archives a while ago in a CC to you. That's from a statement you made in a post prior to December 28, 2005.

Now I could be mistaken, but think I'm not. I've seen you raise this issue repeatedly since I joined BPDR in May, 2006.

So what these facts say to me is that you are having the same kind of reaction, one that must be ineffective because the problem is not fixed... causing yourself and others pain about the same issue in the same way with even the same words... after nearly three years and more than 5,350 posts. No change. Why? How do you explain that? You claim to work the tools all the time, but I have yet to see you work the 5 Steps or the 10 Twisties about your own thought pattern. And you have rejected Ruiz' thought, except for using "separation of stuff" now and then, writing the statement that you don't like something you think you see in his thinking.

Those are the tools we feature here. You don't use them and have suffered with this behavior pattern for three years. Why do you keep trying this approach? Why not choose a different approach? Would you spend three years trying to get your lawn mower to start each day, using exactly the same technique to yank that cord and no other from beginning to end?

I'm not suggesting you go away, Jody. Heaven forbid. But it appears that the BPDR resources are NOT WORKING for you on some big issues, and this one in particular.

I might suggest you take some of the time you've been investing here with this struggle and use it to do some research, reading and perhaps interacting on other forums to see if you can get a more effective result.

As for research, tonight I did a Google browse on the subject "fairness borderline personality".. it turned back 21,400 urls, and some of the articles looked quite good.

I offer this all in part because for many decades I suffered the very same affliction about fairness. I know how much it hurts. It can color your entire life and self image. I had no idea in all that time that it's a matter of choosing to think in a way that causes hurt for myself and those I love. I had no idea it can also be fixed so that there is no longer any pain from the thought pattern.

What do you want to do with this? Reject the ideas and keep the pain, or do some work with the ideas and get rid of the pain and find a healthier thought pattern?

I just had a thought about the original thoughts in your post.

You entitled it angry.

I often find for me anger is the result of a number of ignored or stuffed things. Things I may have held onto for too long, or things that have been repetative, often is the result of sitting with thoughts that could do with a bit of untwisting. If I sit long enough with it I can generally start to recognise a whole heap of other emotions underlying it.

I guess I am asking Jody is what else are you feeling? Perhaps getting in touch / describing those feelings could break down the anger for you.

Jody, Aqua?
We have an IGNORE feature on the board now.
This might be a good time to try it out. Neither of you is getting anywhere with the other, so perhaps you both might want to consider NOT replying (or maybe even reading) the other's posts.

Thank you, IBF. That was a brilliant, wonderful post, IMO. You've hit the nail on the head and I think you've done it in a non-judgmental, non-confrontational though still challenging and thought-provoking way. You've raised valid points and voiced what I think others of us (myself definitely included) may have mangled in the past.

It's a shame, though, that Jody won't be back to read it. I would hope she would be able to find something of value in your words.

This place is what it is and it's not the right fit for every one of us or for every situation. Each of us has our own personal path to recovery and that picture of recovery is going to look different for each of us as a result. BPDR is just one piece being offered in trying to solve the puzzle of recovery. If the BPDR Tools aren't working (and three years says "not working!" to me) for someone, I do think it's time to make some changes. Whether that takes the shape of finding new/other tools to go along with BPDR's tools or whether it's shifting the use of the tools offered at BPDR to find a more effective approach, that's up to each individual.

If I look at the TOOLS section and see a hammer, a screwdriver, a saw, a lug wrench and a pipe wrench, it may seem perfectly obvious to me that if a nail is sticking up out of the board, catching my clothes every day for three years, bothering me to no end, I should reach into the tool box for my hammer and beat that nail down or use the claw to remove it. It's possible that someone else, facing the same situation, is trying to use the pipe wrench to twist off the part of the nail that snags their clothes. Someone else may decide to use the saw to cut off the board completely and get rid of the nail's irritating presence that way. Someone else may just drag the tool box over by the nail, stand on top of the box and warn everyone in ear shot about how horrible the nail is, how destructive it is, to watch out for it, etc.

So maybe the tools could be effective if we used them differently or changed how we saw them in our lives.

I'd be hella-angry at the nail too. But if someone told me "That nail can't be removed because it would cause the whole building to collapse" I'd stop being angry at the nail and find another way to live with its presence because I value the building way more than the annoyance one little piece of the whole offers me.

I never said to leave the board. I said, "So how about be yourself. Learn who that is. And if it's a personality that doesn't match what this board's focus is, you might want to think about seeking more support outside this particular board." Nothing about "Get out of here, Jody."



I did not say you were lying. I said exactly what you quoted. It seems to me you'll say you get something just to get people to stop bringing attention to whatever it is you feel you're being attacked on.



Again, I never said you lied. I never said it was on purpose.


We do call others on their stuff. Just because you don't SEE it Jody, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.




I've learned to not act out on my reactions. To choose what I do or say in a situation. Am I always making the right choice? Hell, no. But it gets easier as time goes on. And the mistakes I make are smaller and smaller. The problem I see here is that you think I'm saying you're making those choices on purpose just to make trouble. I'm saying you make those choices because you won't stop yourself long enough to run through the tools and choose a better response.

You take it personally because you thinking I'm saying you're lying and you're doing things to cause trouble. I've never said that. If you could remove the defensiveness from your reading of my post, maybe you could see what it is I'm truly saying.

ty ibf. i decided to come back, read, and choose what i respond to. your post was very helpful. i must get to the bottom of this "need" i have. and to accept its ok for me to feel anger.

i noted i wasnt clear enough on my post to make my point. i was owning my emotions, my feelings, not pointing fingers as such. i was having a total inner child thing. something very hard and new to me is owning and stating how i feel. however, anger is a secondary emotion and i need to get below that to see what it means.

my intent was good but i went about all wrong. doh.

why this deep need for fairness? why this deep instinct to lash out? i dont know. ibf, maybe you know where yours came from. i dont yet.

however, i do know im seeing this stuff warped. i just dont know why yet. i see it as rejection.

this bpd shit is hard. damn it.

ash and ibf, i appreciate your words and time spent trying to help me. i think i will do a search and see where this comes from.

just posting the first post was so scary for me. and i didnt do it right....which didnt help. but i did it! i have to see that as a positive.

one thing was said here, about me not listening. or the key to get me to listen. even i dont know that one lol. however, i didnt want answers as such as just to express a emotion and see if i didnt die doing it. i didnt. but too many didnt get the intent (some did, thank you) and it ended up in a mess.