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Joshua
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Post subject: Fear of Judgment Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:04 pm |
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Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:00 pm Posts: 67 Location: New Jersey
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I'm terrified to post this. No, seriously. I decided to post it, re-wrote the subject six times, and then reconsidered if I wanted to do this. I don't know if anyone but the oldbies and leader team even knows who I am anymore. I know that a lot of people had a problem with me seeming to "hit and run." There are some realizations that took place in me, though, and maybe doing this will help me work through them. This relates to mental health, I promise. I want to go over the surface issue first. Inch by inch and all that jazz.  When I was a teenager, I had some pretty harsh stomach problems; to the point where I was misdiagnosed as anorexic and threatened with force-feeding. I wasn't not eating because I thought I was fat; on the contrary, I was pretty disturbed by how slight I was, at least as much as my doctor at the time was. No, I wasn't eating because eating make me feel sick. Not a little woozy. Not tired. SICK. I remember crying after meals because my stomach hurt so much, and I felt like I was going to vomit if I moved too quickly or stood up too fast. But she wasn't hearing any of it. My doctor insisted, over and over again, that I was perfectly healthy, the nausea and pain was from the anxiety of the idea of gaining weight, and all I needed to deal with THAT was an anti-depressant. Last year I was diagnosed with a chronic condition that causes all of the symptoms that I've had since I was 14. I WAS ill, the whole time. I felt vindicated that no, I wasn't "nuts" or making anything up; I WAS SICK. Cue 12 years after that doctor convinced me I was a hypochondriac and a year after I was diagnosed. In case any of you don't know this, I'm genetically female; and I've had about 10 periods in the last four months. I've been drop-dead exhausted for a week, and fighting a low-grade fever for two. I'm getting tremors in the morning, very badly, and I have trouble walking- and this has been going on off and on for years- and headaches like you wouldn't believe. To top it off, my achilles tendon in my left foot is giving me shit. It hurts to put a sock on. And for all this, I REFUSE- absolutely REFUSE- to go to the doctor. I've already diagnosed myself: I'm sick and my periods are wonky because of stress, and the achilles tendon issue is some weird psychosomatic issue because I don't want to go to work and I can't go barefooted. And really, I don't want to waste anymore of my doctor's time. He has patients who are actually ILL and need help. I keep hearing that one doctor's voice telling me I'm perfectly healthy and there's nothing wrong with me. How do you combat a message like that? Am I being unreasonable in not wanting to be seen by a doctor? Anyone have any experience or something that could help? (The issue is really the withering fear of being judged, not about the illness itself; if I call out of work, as I expect I will have to if things don't get better, I'll HAVE to do. I need a doctor's note. :p)
_________________ "Thank god for inner monologue." -Miles Edgeworth, Phoenix Wright: Trials and Tribulations
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Candle
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Post subject: Re: Fear of Judgment Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:31 pm |
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Retired SCL |
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:00 pm Posts: 646 Location: United States
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Hi [[Josh]] = It's great to see you on, but I'm so sorry to read about all that's going on with you physically.
I can certainly understand how something judgmental like that doctor said to you can ring in the echoe even when we know, rationally, that we really DO need to get medical attention.
Vietnam and the 1st Gulf War vets got this a lot, as have so many others who have a medical problem where the etiology isn't immediately parent get that invalidating "it's all in your head" kind of stuff, then, of course, more medical advances are made, and the medical field is singing a different tune, but by then, we get that 'unfairly judged' feeling that can cause real damage.
I do that with chest pain. I chalk it up to stress, even though my Dad and Grandfather died of silent heart attacks in their 30's/early 40's.
Try to remember it's the old tape playing, rather than current reality.
I urge you to go in, especially with the frequency of periods. My OB/Gyn said that is something to come in for right away.
Most fondly,
J.
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Denim Blue
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Post subject: Re: Fear of Judgment Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:17 am |
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:00 pm Posts: 738 Location: Reality ~ It's a great place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there!
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I am one of those people who would typically rather die than to have to see a doctor. I am fortunate that I ended up with a doctor (GP/OB) during my pregnancy with my youngest daughter who actually takes the time to talk to patients and she has a good understanding of medicine as well as psychology. There are certainly things she has told me over the years that I disagreed with, such as I would need to be on meds the rest of my life, but I was able to discuss this with her and she never came across as judgmental since she understood why it was so important for me to get off meds some day (she even admitted that there was a chance I could go off meds at some point). BTW, I have been off meds for a year now and I am doing as well as I was on meds so that is progress. I tend to get triggered just by being in an exam room and talking to a doctor but she has been very patient and she has even been able to talk to me in a way that helps keep me grounded when I am losing it.
Do you think you could find a doctor who has a "bedside manner" that you will respond to without feeling too much fear of judgment? There are some very sensitive doctors out there, even if it requires going out of the area to find one. Now that we have moved, my doctor is 2 hours away but I would still see her if I needed to see a doctor for any reason.
_________________ The question of suicide: Keep it a question. It's not really an answer.
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Joshua
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Post subject: Re: Fear of Judgment Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:04 pm |
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Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:00 pm Posts: 67 Location: New Jersey
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Thank you for the replies.
Candle: Oh WOW. I've never heard the analogy of an "old tape" in regards to this, specifically, and I hadn't thought of it. Boy is it LOUD though. I grimaced when I read your statement that war vets sometimes have this problem, and immediately thought, "Wow, but they're actually injured and ill! That's not what's happening with me..." and I really, really felt guilty.
I have a therapy appointment on Monday; I think I might ask if we can talk about this issue. Getting feedback from other people can bring problems into focus, and I think your post did that for me. I hadn't identified the "guilt" factor yet. Thanks for that.
As for the OB/GYN... I suspect it's probably partly because I'm not taking ANY of my meds as I should. I think I need a Meds R Us post asking for advice on remembering to take them. If I don't get better after I start taking them as I should be, then I'll go to the GYN (although by then I'll be due for an appointment anyway, haha...)
Denim: Actually, my doctor's bedside manner is much better than most physicians I've seen; my first gastroenterologist was TERRIBLY intimidating. I refused to go back to him.
I'm considering, though, going to another doctor just for a fresh opinion; the doctor who declared that my stomach issues were all in my head was a partner in the office, and isn't working there anymore. None-the-less, that doctor has her notes all over my file; as great as my doctor is now, he interacted with her, regarding me, and he has those notes. Whether he's considering the "hypochondria" spin the other doctor put in my file when I was younger doesn't matter, I don't think; I'll be afraid he'll think the same thing regardless. Getting a fresh opinion might be a good idea.
_________________ "Thank god for inner monologue." -Miles Edgeworth, Phoenix Wright: Trials and Tribulations
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Harmonium
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Post subject: Re: Fear of Judgment Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:19 pm |
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Community Leader |
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:56 am Posts: 1465
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Joshua,
Just my opinion here....sometimes docs don't readily know what a group of symptoms may be. It may not fit into their diagnostic grouping, or they may not have the time to investigate or you may not have the insurance to investigate. Many factors. Sometimes it may be more likely that the patient is a hypochondriac and some docs may be jaded into thinking that anyone who does not 'fit the mold' must be one. Sometimes they are wrong. I believe that if you feel you are indeed not a hypochondriac and do indeed have a physical ailment that needs to be addressed, you need to continue to see doc after doc untill they 'hear' you. Diagnosis for some conditions can be difficult. Not all docs see a 'hypochondriac' notation on a chart and believe it, nor is it always writen.
My mother was told that her syptoms were 'all in her head' for 14 years. She was sent to psychiatrists who told her she was a hypochondriac. She had vision issues, numbness, would loose control of a limb without warning and many other symptoms that the docs at the time couldn't explain through the testing at the time. Eventually, because she persisted, she was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis. Vendicaiton, but not without it's costs.
I am not speaking of any of the specifics in your post in the above. Just, docs are not always right. Personal responsibility for our own bodies, right?
Good luck to you in dealing with all this. I wish you well.
Harmonium
_________________ Temet Nosce-- The Oracle "Pain is resistance to change." --Ida Rolf BRING IT ON!! -- personal mantra
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jodyisme
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Post subject: Re: Fear of Judgment Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:25 pm |
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:00 pm Posts: 1800 Location: texas
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joshua, i can relate. esp with a bipolar daughter! man, some drs see that and just walk out.
i can understand the fear. listen to your gut. if you feel sick, then keep asking until someone listens and finds the problem.
it is scary, oh yes. one GP i had fired me as a patient because of my depression! no shit. i guess he didnt want to fool with it. but we pay the drs for a service. they seem to forget this. keep looking until you find a good one. they are out there. and i hope you feel better soon.
_________________ "no one can walk on you unless you lay down first" -old saying-
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Bordergirl
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Post subject: Re: Fear of Judgment Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:35 pm |
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Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:00 pm Posts: 2184 Location: Near the Cornfields
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Joshua, I do feel for you. And I can understand your fear. My son has ulcerative colitis. His first gastro doctor mis-treated him and we fired him quickly. We had no choice. He was deathly ill and this physician was very lacksadaisical about his care. I too have digestive problems and when I was younger I was told they were "all in my head." Well, I have a form of colitis too.
The thing is, you have to keep searching for the right doctor. Don't give up. They are out there. If one doesn't listen to you or mistreats you, give him/her the boot. Find another one. I dont' know what city you're in, but some cities have teaching hospitals with very good staff attached to them.
Also, I am not asking what your diagnosis is. But I was diagnosed a few years ago with something called "gastroparesis." It is when the food you eat doesn't digest in your stomach and it sort of comes back up. It can cause great pain and nausea. I had never heard of it before but I was having terrible pain and that's what it was. There is medication you can take for it.
Anyway, please find a doctor you like. Someone you have faith in and will not invalidate you. You have every right to good medical care.
((((Joshua))))
_________________

......I'm gonna look at you till my eyes go blind..... (Bob Dylan)
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Joshua
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Post subject: Re: Fear of Judgment Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:47 pm |
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Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:00 pm Posts: 67 Location: New Jersey
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Hellooooo...
I went to the doctor in the beginning of October. He prescribed Neurontin for the pain, and wants me to do another battery of blood tests; he's checking me for Lyme disease, Lupus, and... something else I can't remember the name of. Fibromyalgia? I dunno.
The only problem is that I got married this past weekend; all the paperwork got shuffled around and thrown EVERYWHERE! so now I have to try to find it and if I can't, call for another copy. There's another bit of unreasonable fear I've got to get past. But I'm working on it. (Forcing myself to come back to this thread is part of working on it.)
Bordergirl, my gastro diagnosis is indeed gastroparesis. I've tried Reglan (metoclopramide) but the side effects were far, far too severe for me to continue with it- I've always been severely sensitive to a lot of medications.
Anyway, working on getting past the fear of asking for things I need... Slowly. It's really not my current doctor. It's the messages I have from that previous doctor, the "tapes" that repeat in my head every time I have a problem. Part of me, even now, is saying that I don't really need the bloodwork, because I'm feeling better (which is probably because of the medication). Why waste their time, they're not going to find anything, I'm too young to have medical problems... I heard two of those three statements from that doctor. Other favorites of hers were, "It's all in your head," "Depression can make you have 'false' symptoms" and, specific to the stomach problems, "You're not sick, you're Anorexic."
I'm trying to make flashcards with "counters" to the negatives that I learned in my teen years, about asking for help. Any suggestions for slogans or affirmations I can use?
_________________ "Thank god for inner monologue." -Miles Edgeworth, Phoenix Wright: Trials and Tribulations
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Bordergirl
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Post subject: Re: Fear of Judgment Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:20 pm |
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Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:00 pm Posts: 2184 Location: Near the Cornfields
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I don't know about slogans, but I'm glad you left that doctor. You have every right to ask for what you need. Things will work best when you find a doctor who will work with you, not against you.
I would urge you to have the bloodwork. Just because you feel good today doesn't mean symptoms won't pop up again. It's better to know what is going on rather than to hide from it. Then you can go forward with treatment.
As far as gastroparesis goes, I dont' take medication for it. My doctor told me to eat small meals, not to eat too much at one time. That seems to help.
I have Fibromyalgia. There is no blood test to diagnose it. Rather, the diagnosis is done by checking "tender points." You have 18 tender points on your body (9 on each side) and if you have 11 out of 18, then you are given the diagnosis. But the other illnesses you mentioned do require blood tests, so I would urge you to have it done.
((((Joshua))))
_________________

......I'm gonna look at you till my eyes go blind..... (Bob Dylan)
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kari2171
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Post subject: Re: Fear of Judgment Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:02 pm |
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Community Leader |
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:00 pm Posts: 439
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"My pain IS real." "I DESERVE to be healthy" "THIS doctor is different." "I am an adult and can speak up for myself now." "I WILL fight for my health."
(Josh)
_________________ It's a shallow life that doesn't give a person a few scars. - Garrison Keillor
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harindy
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Post subject: Re: Fear of Judgment Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:28 pm |
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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:13 pm Posts: 44
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I thought the "old tape" concept was unique to my therapist, guess it's in that book of psychiatric metaphores somewhere! She uses the reference in terms to me frequently, since her 7-year-old daughter uses more advanced technology than I do (I'm still stuck on cassette players, my T insists I need to move on to an iPod).
I also have had trouble communicating to doctors that there is an actual, physical concern that needs to be addressed. Actually, many of my symptoms sound like what you have been describing--you can bet I'll be asking my doctor about the possibility of gastroparesis the next time I see him! So many aspects of our bodies are intricately related, it's quite possible depression/anxiety/stress creates these symptoms, but that doesn't mean it doesn't lead to a significant physical disorder! It also works the other way around, undiagnosed physical disorders can lead to mental health issues. Of course, if your doctor knows you have/had a diagnosis of BPD that's all the more reason for them to question your judgement & think you are just trying to get attention (when are they going to get that there is a reason for those attempts???).
I've done a lot of "doctor shopping" over the last six years. After a few years of trying to please everyone in the medical field it finally hit me that I am the one paying the doctor--not the other way around. So it's their responsibility to make me want to stay with them, not my responsibility to put up with them. I've had no luck finding a family practitioner I feel adequately meets my needs. However, after going through at least a dozen psychiatrists I was finally able to get into someone my psychologist recommended, and I love him. He uses a holistic perspective, and is willing to consider all possible methods of treatment (including homeopathic approaches, though this is not his specialty). He also was a MD before becoming a psych, which is a plus. I've seen him almost exclusively for physical, as well as psychological, problems for the last two years. While he can't do a full diagnostic check up, lab work, etc. I have a PCP who is the type who will do anything you ask him too (not useful when you are trying to get him to make a diagnosis, but useful if you already know what you are dealing with)--all I have to do is go in with a prescription from my psych & my PCP will run the lab work. At this point I have six months left on insurance--if there is a test to be run, I am having them run it. There may be nothing wrong physically--but if there is something wrong we may as well catch it & treat it before my insurance runs out!
On a deeper level, I think when our needs have been invalidated repeatedly (especially by those we see as authority figures, such as doctors) it makes it nearly impossible for us to openly acknowledge those needs. It sounds like you're doing exactly what you need to do to overcome those negative messages. My suggestion would be to review the ten ways to untwist your thinking & carefully consider how they apply to you. I particularly like the double-standard method in this situation--if a friend came to you telling you they were experiencing these symptoms would you tell them it was all in their head?
On a side note you may look into digestive enzymes, not sure they would help in your case, but they have helped allieviate some of my symptoms
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Denim Blue
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Post subject: Re: Fear of Judgment Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:27 pm |
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:00 pm Posts: 738 Location: Reality ~ It's a great place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there!
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I was never allowed to be sick growing up and was raised with a "no bleed, no hurt" motto so I understand how difficult it is to relate to a sick body. I tend to think that ignoring symptoms will make them "go away" and sometimes it seems to work that way. I think that having the ability to separate from the physical body helps.
I have gone back on meds and when I was at my doctor's office last she brought up my resistance to treating my asthma and indicated that I was going to have severe problems in the future since I refuse to treat it now. She also brought up the fact that I have not done a PAP for over 5 years (it has probably been 8 years since that is how old my younger daughter is now) when I should be doing one every year due to the fact that all the women on both sides of my family have had uterine cancer - my mother was diagnosed with cancer when I was only 8 years old - and required hysterectomies to keep them alive. I suppose I would rather let something work unseen and kill me than to go looking for it!
I will be seeing my doctor tomorrow and I am embarrassed by the fact that I still have a sinus infection after two weeks. It seems like it should be gone by now and yet it has not gone away yet. She will probably want to prescribe an antibiotic when I won't even have the money to fill my prescription for my Wellbutrin if she increases my dose, which is what I have to see her for in the first place since I have been on a higher dose in the past. If she did not insist on follow-up visits in order to get refills on prescriptions, it is not likely I would see her very often because the majority of my visits to her office have been med related (which is ironic considering how much I hate to be on meds). I can't remember the last time I saw my doctor specifically for an illness because I either don't get sick or don't seek treatment when I am sick - and I actually like my doctor!
It sounds like you are doing the tests necessary to figure out what is going on in your physical body. That might give you some answers and help you decide on a course of action. It is hard to give ourselves "permission" to be sick but sometimes we have to admit that all is not well and we need medical assistance to overcome a serious illness.
As far as how to counter the messages you have been given in the past, how about something like "This doctor is trustworthy so I can accept his professional diagnosis once the medical tests have been completed." Then it will be up to you as to how you want to proceed with treatment.
_________________ The question of suicide: Keep it a question. It's not really an answer.
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Ash
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Post subject: Re: Fear of Judgment Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:28 pm |
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Senior Community Leader |
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:00 pm Posts: 3007 Location: Denver
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Joshua wrote: I got married this past weekend Wowsers! Congrats!! I hope everything is as you hoped it would be. You deserve happiness, Josh. (Sorry, I know this doesn't address the other stuff but I did want to acknowledge this life-changing step you've taken.)
_________________ Like BPD Recovery on Facebook. Follow BPD_Recovery on Twitter.
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kari2171
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Post subject: Re: Fear of Judgment Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:40 pm |
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:00 pm Posts: 439
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Can't believe I missed that the first time through. Congrats!
_________________ It's a shallow life that doesn't give a person a few scars. - Garrison Keillor
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